Fuzzygalore.com Square Peg, Round Hole – When Your Riding Group Takes on A Stranger
On Sunday I hit the road with friends (the Mixed Nuts 
) to check out Rice-O-Rama Vintage and Custom Japanese Motorcycle Show and Swap Meet in Massachusetts. The event, held in Oxford was a little over 200 miles from where we live here on Long Island.
Square Peg, Round Hole
As I’ve mentioned many times before, my riding friends are an eclectic bunch. They’re also quite friendly so it is not uncommon to see faces I’ve never met peppered in amongst the regulars if I turn up for a group ride. While there is much variation in ages, personality and even bike types there always seems to be a common thread of respect both for the other riders and for riding itself.
When someone doesn’t “fit” they stick out like a sore thumb. So was the case of a friend of a friend on Sunday’s ride.
The sun had not yet burned through and the roads were still wet from rain overnight. The air was misty and the temperature hung around the 60 degree mark. The new guy was wearing a sweatshirt and jeans. Oof. It was going to be a cold 200 miles up the slab to Oxford. Red flag.
After about an hour and a half on the road, we pulled off for a fill up. My friend Bill was kind enough to loan his rain jacket to the new guy to at least try to break some of the wind.
Waving the Big Red Flag
After spending an hour or two walking around the show, we were headed for the Mohawk Trail and then to route 112 and finally 8 to catch the ferry back to Long Island. The route is a nice mixture of good riding and still being able to make tracks back home.
About 5 miles away from Rice-O-Rama we had to hop onto the highway to pick up another route. As we pulled away, I got shuffled in behind the new guy. From there I watched him nearly merge into a car because he overcooked the entrance ramp turn. Red flag.
Then as we exited the highway, I somehow found myself behind him once again as he charged forward through the group. The exit ramp had 2 lanes, which he used both of liberally. He had once again overcooked the turn and it seemed like the guard rail had a tractor beam that was sucking him in. A classic case of target fixation. My heart thumped in my chest for him. I thought for sure he was going to bite it but he managed to make it through. Red flag.
Houston, We Have A Problem
We stopped at a gas station on route 2 and I voiced my concerns over his riding. The guy who brought him along was going to have a talk with him. It was then that I’d discovered that he wasn’t just not so great at turning his motorcycle,… he was a new rider.
He was given the ‘ride your own ride’ and the ‘don’t try to keep up’ and ‘get yourself some decent gear’ speeches. The response was mostly a lot of yeah, yeah, yeahs and I knows.
When we left the gas station, I made it a point to try and stay in front of him and out of his way. I did not trust him at all.
On our route home there was a section of the roadway that had construction on it. They’d set up temporary traffic lights to regulate what had become a single lane of traffic. While sitting and waiting for the light to change, I could see the approaching headlight of my new friend coming in hot behind me. He did stop but… it was a little too close for comfort. Red flag.
I felt unsafe in front of him and behind him.
Score – Luck: 1 Skill : 0
Our group makes it a point to wait at any route changes. With 8 motorcyclists on this ride of varying riding styles, we’d never want to leave anyone behind. It’s just how we work. So, as we pulled over to wait for two riders before turning and continuing on, the group again got shuffled.
Instead of letting the more spirited riders pull out first, our new friend pulled out toward the front of the group. And there I was following him again. Damn.
From behind him I watched him enter turns while hugging the center line. He was making mid turn corrections and braking through the turns. He was blowing corners and getting sucked towards the shoulder. It was ridiculous. I couldn’t take it. My heart was in my throat just waiting for disaster. He was going too fast and clearly had no idea what he was doing. I waited for a clean place to pass and then put some distance between us.
What a mess. It had to be luck that managed to get him through the roads without crashing or hurting anyone else.
Someone else in the group told me that they watched him blow a curve on the highway and hit the white painted lines that separate the traffic lanes from the entrance ramp lane. They also said he was riding too close to them as well.
Well, That Explains That
Last night (the day following the ride) I found out from another friend that this guy had 300 miles TOTAL riding experience before the day ride with us. 300! We did more miles on Sunday than he had done in his whole riding career.
This experience left me with many questions. Here are a few. I’d love your insight.
- Should the person who invited him along get a stiff talking to? He did not stay with him or coach him or keep him as a wing man or say You guys go ahead, I’m gonna hang back with my man.
- Should this new rider have even accepted the invitation to ride with this group?
- Should he have made his lack of experience abundantly clear to everyone?
- Is it really shame on us for not bothering to ask about his experience before we even left?
Comments
Holy cow. I dunno where to even start. I was a noob only 2.5 years ago, but even then, I knew full well to NOT go on any group rides for a while. In fact, it was a full EIGHT MONTHS and nearly 5000 miles before I went on my first group ride.
Yes, the “inviter” should get a talking to. He should NEVER have invited the guy. At the very least, he should have stayed with him.
The group itself.. this is my personal opinion here.. the group should have turned him away for not having proper gear. This is assuming that everybody else did have it so as to not be hypocritical.
What kind of bike was he on? Any idea how old he was?
Yes, I can see how someone who shows up barely dressed when everyone else is wearing gear should’ve been a clear signal that all was not right.
He was on a Bandit 1200 – around 30, maybe? Younger than me – that’s all I know
I’ve mulled this situation quite a bit and I can’t even say definitively that he shouldn’t have been part of a group BUT i agree that his buddy should’ve taken him under his wing.
Then I think about it some more and come back to the question of why would the inviter have thought this would’ve been a good idea? I can only imagine that he really didn’t think much about it at all.
Then… I think – i am in the wrong for not stopping and having a talk with this guy.
I dunno. I’m just glad it all worked out and no one got hurt.
At the very least, I would have a chat with the guy who invited him and ask him, politely, WTF he was thinking. Doesn’t matter that you didn’t during the ride… it would be worth finding out if the guy who invited him really thought it through, or what.
I asbolutely agree the inviter should have stayed with him. Whether he knew how much experience he had or not, if a person invites someone on a group ride that they don’t know that well, they should definitely be the ones who hang back if they can’t keep pace.
I’ve gotten stuck babysitting the guy that got invited to the group once or twice, and I’ve hated it because
a) it’s ruining my ride, that I was supposed to have that day.
b) I don’t know the guy, why am I stuck keeping an eye on him, aside from the general “he’s not a douchebag, I’m not keen on seeing him wipe out”
c) The same fear of your own safety. If he’s not going to ram into you from behind, are you going to successfully be able to dodge him, and not crash when he dumps it in a curve?
You’re totally justified in how you feel
Yea – i think the inviter should’ve hung back. I know I would feel responsible to stick with someone I asked to come along if they weren’t up to speed with riding yet!
Holy cow! Do you know if this fella had any professional training? I think the dude who brought him should have sent out an email to the group to check first if it would be ok. I also think that the inviter should have stayed back with the noob. I probably would suggest to the inviter that on the next ride that the ‘friend’ not come because of his unsafe riding practices. We have all talked about being picky with who you ride with and I think it is well within your rights to decide not to ride with this fella again. If they aren’t willing to take suggestions about gear and technique it makes me wonder about the reckless factor. His bike sounds like it is awfully big for a brand new rider too. As for the gear choice, I always advocate ATGATT, but have learned that you can’t force others to make the choice. I think the group needs to set some riding parametres and deal with the situation like that.
When we stopped at the gas station, I suggested he might want to consider taking a more outside, inside line to his turns rather than riding up the center line – and he said a friend told him the opposite – so… I’m guessing no training.
Our group is very loose. We’re not even a group really. Just friends who happen to ride together sometimes.
Many of the riders have been riding motorcycles for more years than I’ve been alive. I’ve learned to trust their judgement because they’ve shown me that they’re worth trusting. The “inviter” is fairly new (a year or two) to the fold, himself. Any of the guys who have been around for years would view anyone they’ve invited along as a direct reflection on them – so they choose carefully.
PS – I also think it was a little unfair and discourteous on the inviter’s part to not look after his friend and not consider his fellow riders.
agreed!
+That situation clearly shouldn’t have happened. No inexperienced rider as described should have been immersed in a group ride of that nature. Pack ride, perhaps, but not the ride you took. Whose fault? Everyone’s.
The inviter should’ve forethought the situation better. The newbie could’ve too, but he’s the newbie. How would he know?
The group should’ve seen the situation as problematic at the outset upon noticing the ill-prepared rider, and sent him packing.
Sorry, I know it sounds crude, but the stressors that single individual added sapped the enjoyment out of the enjoyment.
Future rides, absolutely. When a bit more experienced…
Ride on.
Roadkill
In my mind the inviter failed on multiple levels and, yes, he/she should get a firm talking to:
1) It was certainly the inviters responsibility to confirm the riders skillset ahead of time and determine if this was a good fit for him.
2) It was also the inviters responsibility to check with the group given his/her knowledge of the riders skillset.
3) It was the inviters responsibility to tell the rider that certain gear would be required or he would be turned away.
4) It was the inviters, and the groups, responsibility to inform the rider of the group’s rules (that includes no ppg no come) and to tell him that he would be sent home if he failed to follow them. IOW the sweatshirt should have gotten him sent home.
Lastly, a lot of the above having been ignored, once the issue was discovered the most skilled of the group should have fallen on his/her sword and taken said newbie under wing if for no other interest than making sure everyone got home in one piece. -Kev LRRS/CCS (Retired) Expert #56/Penguin Instructor/Million Miler/Track day rat.
First of all, so happy y’all made it home safe and sound. Secondly, I’m speechless about the friend who brought him didn’t take responsibility to watch him.
I still consider myself a newbie, but I think I would have been asking the experienced riders lots of questions looking for tips, pointers, and feedback on my riding.
Great post. Thank you!
Ouch. My nerves are frayed just reading this.
As everyone is saying, the invitor was unforgivingly irresponsible for both not mentioning the new rider’s lack of experience and not babysitting him. He had those responsibilities and failed to perform them. When we are operating dangerous machinery, this is serious business.
I had a similar situation in my former-club when a prospect came on a group-ride. I quickly realized he’d exaggerated his riding experience. I assessed he posed a hazard to himself and others around him, so I stuck to him like glue (at risk to myself). I cautioned him at every juncture to slow down and made sure everyone knew to keep space between him and them. The risk of tragedy was hanging in the air and I couldn’t ignore it and do nothing.
I can’t add much that others haven’t already said, but I will say that the real problem here was the person who invited him on a group ride with so little riding experience. He jeopardized the entire group, and deserves to be spoken to.
Wow, what an experience.
Here is my two cents for what it’s worth. His buddy should have absolutely made it abundantly clear he was that much of a noob and on top of it should have volunteered to hang back and mentor his buddy and not wipe him off on the rest of the group.
We have a lot of newer riders join our local forum and they are always along for small and larger group rides, but if they are new to the group, we make a point of checking their riding experience and comfort level before a kickstand is put up. If they are a hazard to other riders one person would be the guy or girl to have a little chat with them mid ride if need be. No one would ever be left behind, but they would be coached at stops whether they wanted the advice or not. There have been times where someone takes one for the team and volunteers to stay back with the new rider. This should be the buddy, but isn’t always.
We usually run into new riders going to slow where it sounds like your new rider was riding beyond his ability.
I have gotten to the point where I really pick and choose group rides depending on who is anticipated to go.
Thanks for sharing this Fuzzy, it is a good reminder of what to look out for on group rides.
I have have to agree with all said above! I was on the ride with Fuzzy and because I was mostly in the front of the group did not realize this guy was a newbie until Fuzzy informed me.
The funny thing is this guy had the time of his life! I believe he felt “protected” to be with experienced riders. We are a “go fast” group (why else would we go miles out of our way to find the “better” roads…) Whenever we stopped he was ecstatic about the ride. I found this interesting and nerve racking, he gained quite a bit of experience on this ride alone.
We all know what happens when newbies get overconfident.
I did 520 miles for the day, he was way over his 300 miles TOTAL experience…
I was totally shocked to find out just how green he was on Monday night. Crazy.
After hearing that it made me realize how lucky incredibly he was that he didn’t fling himself off into the woods. Scary. :-/
I enjoy riding alone for this very reason. I have tried to ride with peopl ein the past and they either go way too fast or way too slow. Maybe I’m just a lone wolf…
I’ve thought back to one of my first group rides. I nearly high sided that day and shortly after I ran off the road on a tight but thankfully very slow hairpin. That’s what it took to really learn and fully appreciate the concept of riding your own ride.
Following my trip into the dirt I was given pointers and feedback for the rest of the ride by a rider who to this day still holds my highest esteem and I really took it all to heart. The remainder of the day went without incident. I can’t say where I’d be without that particular set of circumstances but I think it went a long way towards making me the rider I am today.
Now I’m at a point where I feel confident enough and strongly enough to help a new rider in such a situation. It’s like everything else in life, we’re born not knowing anything. Sure we learn a lot if not most things on our own, but a little guidance goes a long way. Considering our passion for riding and the inherent dangers involved I think it’s worth toning it down if it has a chance to set someone down the right path as it did for me.
Yeah I think the invitee should be the first one to step up, but we can’t control what another person’s actions. The world would be a better place overall if more people step up instead of resigning it to somebody else’s problem.
Yes, i guess you and Kevin are both right. It didn’t have to be the guy who brought him along that stepped up to the plate to help him out. Maybe I was a dick for not being a bigger person.
The truth is, I put my own selfish wants ahead of whatever was going on with this guy. I won’t pretend that I don’t want to be babysitting anyone. I absolutely don’t. My free time is precious, but… not more precious than someone’s safety. Maybe I needed this head check? Or maybe I need to remember why I spent a long time not riding with anyone new.
Ultimately someone needed to step up. What really should have happened, in addition to the things we’ve all mentioned above, is that someone should have taken the “inviter” (unless he/she is judged incapable – in which case they still should have been made to play some role) and said “we have a problem here. You created it now it’s your responsibility to guide _your_ guest and fix it so that the rest of us can enjoy our day safely”
If after dropping it back into the lap into which it belonged, the “inviter” refused or simply didn’t properly do the job, then someone else either pics up or the inviter and his guest get sent off on their lonesome before someone gets hurt.
Nah – you shouldn’t feel bad – this falls squarely on the guy who brought him along – who’s responsibility it was to rangle him up. Period. Was he aware or did it even dawn on him to check out how the guy was doing, or did he wipe his hands clear of it once he got there?
It was a foolish thing to do (bring him along), he should’ve known better (not his first group ride), and should’ve dedicated his day to watching out for the baggage he brought along. Even moreso the guy himself who was riding over his head – we’re all adults. It was probably obviously clear to the dangerous rider that he was doing things foolishly and dangerously – HE should’ve slowed down. Why is it a requirement for anyone to tell him to stop riding like an idiot? This stinks of avoidance of responsibility. You weren’t forcing him to ride fast to keep up with the group – he had options to ride in the back. HE kept passing people dangerously. HE kept pushing forward when he shouldn’t have. HE placed himself in harm’s way, and at any time could’ve said he was going to break off on is own or head back.
You were invited on someone else’s ride and certainly aren’t responsible for everyone’s happy, safe day. What if he didn’t want to listen to you? What if he was very skilled but riding over his head? Woudl you still be responsible for him? How about experienced riders riding within their limits, but crash anyway? That your fault too?
Sorry – I realize this is likely an unpopular position I am taking here – but you said it eloquently – you have few precious moments to get out for rides, and it’s not your responsibility to take folks under your wing that you neither invited nor agreed to protect. You spoke to him on the side, as had others, and the guy who brought him along should’ve immediately handled the situation.
You’re missing a crucial point. Quite simply, his riding put others in danger.
No one said that the inviter or the newbie were devoid of responsibility. No one said that you had to babysit. In fact no one did and look what came of it. You’re all quite lucky that you didnt, at minimum, end up scraping him up and at worst having him take you out. What we said is that this is what caring intelligent people do. This is how we grow the sport and keep EACH OTHER safe. We all bear responsibility for keeping our rides, and our society as a whole, livable and safe. This isn’t a free for all. There’s this thing called The Social Contract.
I think I made it abundantly clear that he put others in danger. That’s my whole point.
Ok – so, you agree he is responsible for himself, the guy who brought him was responsible for bringing him, and people who were there attempted to tell him what he was doing wrong and babysat him. They spoke to the guy who brought him along, and did again after the day was over. Was this not enough? What else should Fuzzy have done? Ride the bike home for him? They did everything you mentioned – so what else was supposed to be done? I can think of one thing – the guy who brought him should’ve taken the guy home, on their own, away from the group.
Crudmop,
Fair enough. We’re good.
Short of a more forceful (by the entire group) “hey dude since you’re still being stupid and putting the rest of us in danger..GTFO”, I wasn’t suggesting there was more that Fuzzy/The group could have done beyond what was previously stated.
I think all have learned and it will better the experience going forward.
’nuff said
Honestly nothing wrong with that in my opinion. If you’re really not into taking that role then absolutely don’t. You’ll make yourself miserable in the process and the newbie will surely pick up on it as well.
My post is definitely a reflection of the way I’ve personally felt and handled such situations in the past. I don’t feel so strongly against it as you, and there are definitely moments where I could and should have stepped up myself. Be it lack of confidence or plain old indifference but I can’t say because I simply didn’t want to, truthfully because I was just too afraid too.
This dialogue with everyone has been really beneficial to try to see things from all sides. Really appreciate your input.
I run a meetup riding group with about 150 members. The toughest part of it is not knowing the abilities of the people who may turn up to ride. We’ve had people show up with bald tires and open toe shoes. Some of it can’t be helped since it’s the nature of group riding but it can be made clear to the regulars that it is expected that anyone they invite has experience. Problems on the road have to be pointed out too so the problems don’t continue.
We recently had a crash on a ride, one of our riders (who caused the crash) told me “I don’t like riding in the left side of the lane so I waved him by” (she then ran into the rider she had waved on). I had no idea she had a left lane phobia, which screams “lack of experience”.
It’s a tough situation to deal with, you wanna accept everyone but you feel responsible for everyone’s safety. Hopefully I a stern talking to will dissuade the newbie from coming back until he has more experience and other members will be more cautious about whom they invite along.
Very interesting read by the way. Thank you. I may link to this from my meetup group so my members can benefit.
Crudmop,
Now you’re being defensive, on your own behalf or Rac…umm Fuzzy’s is unclear to me. Fuzzy is perfectly capable of defending herself and I know she would if she felt attacked. And the suggestion that she “ride his bike home” is kinda silly no? No one even hinted at that thought.
Fuzzy, and everyone else after the conversation, knows what they did, didn’t do and could have (should have?) done. For the purposes of educaiton a question was asked to the wider audience of riders who read this blog. The answers for the most part were all of similar thought.
What you just said in your response was very different from what you said earlier. If putting people in danger was your whole point than what was the personal responsibility comment about? That changed the whole thrust of your argument and it was to that which I specifically responded. “Why is it a requirement for anyone to tell him to stop riding like an idiot?”. The answer is self evident. In fact the answer is the very reason for the Fuzzy’s question in the first place.
Was it the fault (re: expreienced riders and “that your fault too?”) of someone other than the inviter? No, and I don’t recall anyone answering the question suggesting that it was. But since you asked about experienced riders being boneheads? They get sent away to be dumb by themselves.
No one has the right to intentionally (as opposed to newbs who don’t know better – and therein lies a critical distinction in this disccusion) put others in danger or wreck a day. Asshole or not if he falls (even if it’s becuase he insists on being stupid) you know the likelihood is you will stop to clean up the mess – it’s what we do.
And yes some people will be idiots despite the best intentions and education offered by others. Such is the world today. We do our best to keep them from hurting us and others. It’s the right thing to do.
Okay this really did start as an educational discussion and I think it’s been quite good. I was not and ma not trying to lay a trip on anyone so let’s not turn this into a flame war. It’ll detract from the point. Hopefully we’ll get to enjoy a ride together some time. It’s been ages since I’ve seen Fuzzy and company.
And now the tone of YOUR response has changed as well, versus what read as something laced with condescending zings. I’ll chalk it up to lack of tone in text.
My whole point – they spoke to the guy who was riding dangerously and explained what he was doing wrong, they spoke to the person who brought him. The dangerous riding continued, the passing continued. She shouldn’t feel bad about not wanting to babysit the guy. While we like to take on responsibility to help new riders, it is impossible to “babysit” a new rider if he is neither asking for or willing to take the babysitting. Fuzzy’s original reply to you talks about how SHE felt bad about not doing more – but she shouldn’t. She tried to help, and from that point on it was the rider’s responsibility to heed her warnings, take her advice or ignore it and continue to be a danger to everyone around him. He chose the last option, so she was 100% right in doing everything she could to keep as much distance from him as possible. End of story. I revert back to my original and second reply – what else should she have done that she should feel guilty about NOT doing?
You can’t keep each other safe. It’s a myth. We do our best to surround ourselves with like-minded folk who are respectful to each other, we bench-race and talk about techniques, and if new riders come along we try to help them understand concepts if they are having trouble riding or appear dangerous. Once you finish those conversations, it falls 100% on the guy behind the bars to gauge how safe they are being, how in control they are and how under/over their head they are. If they are riding like an idiot, you let them know immediately. If they no longer listen to you, send em packing or distance yourself from them to keep yourself safe. Nobody wants to see anyone hit the ground, but if they don’t listen to you or heed warnings and continue to act dangerously your best bet is to leave a lot of room between you and the offender.
Why would I defend Fuzzy? Maybe because I’ve ridden with her for so long and know the type of person/rider she is pretty well that if it’s gotten to the point where she’s asking if what she did was enough, she has already done all she could. Or maybe it’s because she’s my wife. Take your pick.
On a comedy note – the captcha for this reply is “amans place”. Hmm.
I don’t feel flamed at all.
While I don’t agree 100% with every little thing that everyone has said, I’m not angry or bothered by anything anyone has commented.
Unfortunately, I don’t have the ability to convey every little nuance of who did or said what and the timeline of the entire day – but even so, what i’ve posted is full enough to armchair quarterback an opinion on what anyone thinks should or shouldn’t have been done.
I’m open to viewpoints from all sides – that’s why I posted. There is something to be learned. I question my own actions, which is why the post exists.
Anyone who knows me personally knows that I am not hard hearted. I would be devastated if I thought something i did or didn’t do resulted in someone being hurt. I never, ever want that to happen.
During the ride, I made judgement calls that I felt were appropriate at the time. As did the other riders who were present on the ride.
Now, with the hindsight of knowing how new this rider was – we might be questioning our actions.
During the ride, when I heard “new rider” my mind figured it was his first year on the bike. Not… first 300 miles. Was I wrong in not asking further? Maybe. By the time we’d had this conversation, we were 300 miles in to our 450 mile day.
As I mentioned before – this exercise of talking about it has been helpful. There is always room for improvement or to learn something new. So i do appreciate anyone who took the time to comment.
You are all wonderful. And handsome!
What’s a noob doing on a 1200 anyway! :/
I must say that I have been reading your website for awhile and really enjoy it. Today I felt like I needed to comment on this article. I can say that the new rider made several mistakes. I am sure that he was told by his friend that he would be fine and he was hoping that by being in a group he would get great feed back. As a new rider, all of the people that I know do group rides. Unfortunately for me, this is something I am not skilled to do. I am left to ride alone and try to figure things out by myself. How am I ever going to get better without the feedback of my fellow riders? It sucks as a new rider to try and find someone who is willing to ride with you and go at speeds that you”re comfortable with until you get better. As more experienced riders, you should want to help this person ride better by speaking with him directly and not through his friend. I can honestly say that this posting makes me more discouraged as a new rider because now I definitely feel like I am one my own. Everyone must remember that at sometime you were new to this sport as well, and I am sure that there was someone who help you. I am not trying to be rude but the newbie was not the only one who made a mistake.
Nicci4, I can’t tell from your comment just how inexperienced you are, but if you haven’t done so already, please take a riding class! Yes, it can be inconvenient, but much less so than getting hurt because of bad habits & poor advice. As a minor benefit, taking a MSF or other instructional course can knock a few bucks off your insurance bill. There are plenty of us who have been riding for decades who still find it useful to take a refresher course periodically. It will be one of the best things you can to do increase your enjoyment of riding.
Yes, yes, yes. Take a class or a refresher!
Hi Nicci-
I don’t think you’re being rude, you’re entitled to your opinion and feelings.
I did speak to this rider directly, not just to his friend.
We “should” want to help other riders? I respectfully disagree. Help should come from people who really want to give it. Not everyone does. Or, not everyone does all the time.
Not everyone is even worthy of even being in an instructive role. What if I am a terrible rider or if I’m reckless? Would you still want to learn anything from me? How would you know until you were already exposed?
You’re right in that we were all new at one time – but speaking for myself, I didn’t ride with anyone else my first season out, I had to figure it out on my own, too. I was too scared to ride with anyone else. The following year, I met some nice people who volunteered to ride with me. And even so, I spent a lot of time watching them fade around the next corner. What helped me most… time and miles.
If you already have people that you know that ride and you trust them, why not ask one of them to spend some time with you?
Fuzzy:
All positions have been stated above but I will say that when our group post rides they also post what type of ride it will be.
We have nooby rides where there are many mentors to help guide the newbies, to help them gain experience. It goes without saying that a minimum acceptable riding gear is expected to be riding jacket and boots which cover your ankles. If you don’t have these, then you are turned away.
There are more “spirited” rides posted and you are expected to have riding experience suitable for the route. Routes are posted along with expected speeds. Noobie rides are at the speed limit or under.
Spirited rides may be 10+ over, etc.
If I were you I would have stayed behind the new rider, instead of being in front. I would rather not be the target of an uncontrollable missile. From behind I can maintain a safe distance. You can also hang back a bit to leave space before you accelerate to catch up.
bob
Riding the Wet Coast
My Flickr // My YouTube
Hi Bob-
We don’t really have a “group” so we won’t really post rides, you know? It’s much more loose. It’s more like a txt msg to someone directly saying ‘Hey we’re going to x,y,z tomorrow. Leaving at 6:30.’ The person who set the meet up point & sent me a msg saying we were going riding would have never invited this rider.
I’m guessing that anyone who met the noob before we initially left assumed that whoever invited him must’ve vouched for him, that he was a suitable riding companion. At least that’s what I thought. I guess that’s what I get for assuming.
For the most part when we were out on the twisties, I put this guy a loooooong way behind me, often with several other riders in between us. But, I get what you’re saying and don’t disagree.
I was on that ride. In fact I was the person that sent Fuzz the text to invite her. The person that invited the noob is a rider that I introduced into the group. For the action of inviting the noob he was given a proper verbal beating. He was told that he put my long term riding group in jeopardy & that this choice of invite was just really bad judgement on his part. Also now that I see the decision making abilities of the invitee I am wondering if in fact he may also be a square peg & he has been told so in no uncertain words. I shall forget all the political correct things to say on the subject and leave it at this. Us your dam head when adding another rider to a experienced group. This action was at best wrong to the point of absurd.
42 years in the saddle.
My objective of each days ride is to be able to ride tomorrow.
William P. Kane
Ok I am the guy “idiot” who invited the “new rider” on this ride. Let me start by saying how I totally agree that my buddy should not of been invited on this ride!!!
When I mentioned it to him I told him we were leaving at 5:30am and it would be cold. Right there I honestly thought there would be no way he would want to go..or even think about going….or even wake up in time… it backfired on me… big time!! This was totally my fault and my actions put my friends in danger. I also didnt realize he had that little miles under his belt…. He told me he had been riding very often and that he did a couple 200 mile days on his bike… again my fault for not taking him on an easy local ride first.
I want to say again that I am totally sorry that I put my fellow riders in danger and hope that they will still allow me or even want to ride with me again.
I have had a talking to with my buddy and I have told him he needs to take another riding course before he hurts himself or someone else. Crazy part is he thought is was the best time of his life and loved every minute of it. I dont want to break him down to much just make him realize what he should or should not be doing. Which is a long ass list ill leave to a prof instructor.
My problem is I love riding so much that I want others to be able to share my passion for riding… see what I get to see… ride the roads I get to ride..get off this Island and see some countryside..smell fresh air… and hang with this group of riders who have great knowledge and rock by the way. Its just a great experience I truly love… but what I forgot is its not for everyone… I myself have been riding over 15 years and just started about 4 years back touring long distances on my bikes. I took for granted it takes years of experience and practice to be able to do the ride we did on this past Sunday.
I should of known better… disappointed in myself to say the least!!
I think this is a great topic to be shared… everyone has to start somewhere…just not on this type of ride. This just shows a big judgement mistake on my behalf on many levels and thankfully no one was hurt or worse… I realize now it would of been better to say not this time round buddy….how about we meet at port jeff and “talk” about our bikes over coffee…lol this will never ever happen again!!!!
From Idiot Inviter guy
i was also on that ride.the inviter knows he made a big mistake and feels really bad about it.
I know the new guy and knew his experiece level.I also tried talking to him about slowing down and riding his own ride. Like everyone else said,he was having the time of his life and was wrapped up in the excitement of the ride. We all should have done more than we did. the new guy is very lucky he didn’t hurt himself or any of us.
I’m 100% sure that if any of us find ourselfs are in the same situation again, we will tell the new rider he cannot ride with us.
On a possitive note. the new guy made many mistakes,rode way over his ability,scared the shit out of me and the rest of the group,but he didn’t crash.He has a lot of potential, and I will ride with him again,and hopefully make him a better rider. For aguy with only 300 miles experiece he actually rode pretty good.
Now I remember why I ride alone or with the ex-girlfriend!
Good morning from Scotland. I’ll butt in, then butt out. Apologies in advance if my thoughts aren’t wanted. What comes across very strongly from the blog and the replies to it, is that you are probably just the right group for including noobs and applying peer pressure, so they set off on their riding lives in the right direction. Whether that is something you want to do, is a different matter and your own choice. I just wish more groups like yourselves did bring them on board, rather than them ending up trying to keep up with the local ‘fast’ guys and either being put off riding for life or have an off. Noobs are generally, if nothing else, compliant and want to fit in. But you need to tell them how it is going to be from the start. I know, for that to happen, you need to know they are a noob in the first place. dollar bill – that last paragraph you wrote. You’re a good man. Hopefully this is one noob who will learn and one day be doing the same to another noob.
I came across this topic and the replies just through my web meandering. You seem such a good and similar bunch to the one I ride with. I can only imagine how much fun it would be to ride with you.
Slainte
Ian